Tuesday, March 29, 2011

Romans Study XXXI - Politics and Religion

Romans 13

 Here is the much debated passage about whether or not to overthrow the new world order...or rather what our responsibilities as subjects of a government are.

  1Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 

Well, that does say that the powers that be are ordained of God. BUT, what about a tyrannical government. What about Hitler, Stalin, Saddam Hussein? ...What we are 'specting here shortly. 

 

source

I don't know. 

 

The Mr. and I have had some discussions about this and I just really don't know how to feel about patriotism, militias, war civil or otherwise. God certainly isn't anti-war, being as David a man after his own heart was always involved in wars.

Also our own country was kind of founded on a type of disobedience to the Motherland, so it seems that's how we even got here. 


Taking a lesson from the history of Israel, they were more than once given over to bad leaders due to their disobedience and sin.

Could that be what is happening in all the bad regimes here and around the world?


I will try to stay away from anything political here since I really don't know what I am talking about, but I think:

  1. All this geo-political stuff is not always as black and white as it seems.

  2. No political party has all the answers.

  3. Most importantly, God is Sovereign over all nations. 

 2Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
Again, it is argued that legal, godly governments is what is meant here, not tyrannical systems. So I have heard it reasoned from this that we are not under obligation to obey unjust governments.

And the word damnation, doesn't always mean eternal damnation. Here the word is krima, which Strong's translates as:


1) a decree, judgments
2) judgment
a) condemnation of wrong, the decision (whether severe or mild) which one passes on the faults of others
b) in a forensic sense
1) the sentence of a judge
2) the punishment with which one is sentenced
3) condemnatory sentence, penal judgment, sentence
3) a matter to be judicially decided, a lawsuit, a case in court

 3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
Okay here is something, rulers are not a terror to good works. In a righteous government, they wouldn't be.

 4For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
 Perhaps here is another clue. He is the minister of God to thee for good. Paul seems to be warning believers to obey their government and to not do evil since a God-ordained government has the right to punish.
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8 comments:

  1. JoanneMarch 29, 2011 at 8:25 AM

    I agree with you; no political party is 100% right. thats why I look at what they are doing as opposed to just being one or the other just because...linear polital thinking is what gets people in trouble. I want to say that I really pay attention to what their real agenda is , but it is hard to tell what it is at times....alot of corruption everywhere. we have to guard our hearts and put our trust in God. he will Never steer us wrong.

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  2. SusanMarch 29, 2011 at 9:05 AM

    Hi Ma,

    I think that passage is misused alot to make people believe that the USA is a "godly power" that God uses to correct us... and to an extent that is true, however I am seeing more and more the power of the ruler of this dark world, of "principalities and powers" at work here. Yes, Jesus will make everything turn out for good.... for those who love HIM... but He also said many will turn in their friends and families to the authorities. I see that happening today, and it reminds me of how people turned in friends, family, neighbors, etc, to the Nazis. It does require discernment, and eventually I believe we need to submit to it...not to save our flesh, but to crucify it and lay it down, the way Jesus did, like a lamb to the slaughter.

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  3. wendywornMarch 29, 2011 at 2:23 PM

    If we are born-again, we are no longer American or Canadian or whatever country we may be in, but are citizens of heaven. I believe we should, as Christians, obey the laws of the country that we happen to be in, assuming that the laws of that country are not against God's Word. If that country required you to renounce Christ - then we would have to take a stand for Christ, come what may. But most of the time, as least here in American, no one is asking us (yet) to renounce Christ.

    Similarly, we are also instructed to pray for those in authority over us, that we may be able to lead peaceable lives.

    Jesus never got involved in the local politics. When the apostles were dragged into courtrooms for their testimony of Christ - they said, we need to obey God rather than man. I think that we should obey the law(s), but if we get called in to courts for our testimony of Jesus Christ then the Holy Spirit will give us the words to speak at that time.

    Bless you!
    Linda

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  4. Child of GodMarch 29, 2011 at 2:29 PM

    I believe any government is in power because God allowed it and we are told to obey the government and pray for them. If the government tells us to go against God then we are free to not obey them, for God always comes first.
    Just look at Daniel and Nebuchadnezzar, the king of Babylon. He was a tyrant of a ruler, yet God rewarded Daniel and his friends for obeying him.

    Quite the topic and one for discussion.

    Blessings,
    <><

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  5. Ma ~March 29, 2011 at 2:44 PM

    Hi Linda,

    Thanks for visiting:)
    I agree with you that we are to pray for our leaders and obey the laws of the land unless, of course, they directly go against God's own law.

    The way things are going, it seems that persecution may not be too far in the future for us here. Scary indeed, but good to know that those who have gone before us were given the grace to face it!

    Child of God,

    I was going to try to work the story of Daniel in Babylon into this post somehow, but didn't so I thank you for bringing that up!

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  6. Penned PebblesMarch 29, 2011 at 11:12 PM

    I'm with you in thinking that it means righteous government. Also like and agree with the discussions.
    We are to submit and obey righteous law and leading but will have to stand up to 'lions' if we are asked to renounce God or Christ. Blessings!

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  7. GinaMarch 30, 2011 at 7:48 AM

    Thanks for sharing this. We just were studying ancient history in school and I was struck with how evil and corrupt the government was in New Testament times. In the context that Romans was written, there was NOT a righteous government. Paul was encouraging a proper relations to a government that was horribly wicked - just read about what the Roman emperors did for fun! I don't think we can ever look at these verses and say they don't apply to us because our government is not following God.
    Gina

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  8. Ma ~March 30, 2011 at 8:07 AM

    Hello Petra,
    I agree that we can't obey unrighteous laws. China's one child policy comes to mind.

    Hi Gina,
    Thanks for visiting:)

    Ancient Rome was an awful government.:( And I am struck by the fact that the early Christians did not go out and try to overthrow it or anything.

    They DID hide and try to keep to themselves as much as possible (from what I understand). But it IS God who sets up governments and overthrows.

    He already knows the end from the beginning of course, and all things work for His will and His glory.

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