We all deserve Hell.
I heard it over and over, I believed it, I taught it to Sunday school children. Why do we all deserve Hell?
All have sinned and fallen short the Glory of God. The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Note Paul doesn't say the wages of sin is eternal torture. That is pieced together from other places and in Jesus's proclamation of wailing and gnashing of teeth. The fire is never quenched, the worm never dies. The smoke of their torment rises forever and ever.
If Hell forever is your default setting, then yes, any way to avoid it would be preferable. Do you love Jesus or are you running to him to avoid Hell? If there were no Hell, would you still love Jesus?
I'll link to this post today. The last few paragraphs made me think about this.
Putting aside that there is no proof of hell outside of ancient books, I like this quote:
WHY does everyone who ever lived deserve to be in eternal pain and suffering for finite sins we commit on this earth during our short lives?
An eye for an eye is infinitely more merciful in the light of this and Jesus was supposed to be more compassionate than the Law of Moses?
The only unpardonable sin is not believing? What is going on here?
The disease is created so the cure can be sold. Don't question it, or you'll be going there yourself.
I heard it over and over, I believed it, I taught it to Sunday school children. Why do we all deserve Hell?
All have sinned and fallen short the Glory of God. The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Note Paul doesn't say the wages of sin is eternal torture. That is pieced together from other places and in Jesus's proclamation of wailing and gnashing of teeth. The fire is never quenched, the worm never dies. The smoke of their torment rises forever and ever.
If Hell forever is your default setting, then yes, any way to avoid it would be preferable. Do you love Jesus or are you running to him to avoid Hell? If there were no Hell, would you still love Jesus?
I'll link to this post today. The last few paragraphs made me think about this.
Putting aside that there is no proof of hell outside of ancient books, I like this quote:
"...Now is there the slightest evidence for this? No, it just says so in Mark 9, Matthew 13 and Revelation 14. Perhaps you'll remember from The Lord of the Rings, it says that when the elves die, they go to Valinor, but they can be reborn in Middle Earth. I say that just as a point of comparison.”- Sam Harris
WHY does everyone who ever lived deserve to be in eternal pain and suffering for finite sins we commit on this earth during our short lives?
An eye for an eye is infinitely more merciful in the light of this and Jesus was supposed to be more compassionate than the Law of Moses?
The only unpardonable sin is not believing? What is going on here?
The disease is created so the cure can be sold. Don't question it, or you'll be going there yourself.
"We all deserve Hell."
ReplyDeleteAnd yet, or as the story goes, all of us aren't going to get "Hell". At face-value, if we're ALL born "guilty" and deserving of a punishment, but yet, some of us are granted clemency, then "justice" has been sidestepped. There can't be perfect "justice" where there are loopholes.
"The only unpardonable sin is not believing?"
So, isn't non-belief then the only relevant "sin", since all other "sins" can be swept under the carpet under the right conditions, including mass murder and child rape?
"What is going on here?"
I think you answered that when you said....The disease is created so the cure can be sold.
Yes, but Paul said to those that are perishing the preaching of the cross is foolishness. We can't see it because we weren't granted faith, or so the story goes.
Delete"We can't see it because we weren't granted faith[.....]"
DeleteAgree, or don't agree: If some of us weren't granted faith, which is the very thing that is (presumably) required to become a true believer and to have the proper discernment of scripture, then I'm sorry, but whoever decided to withhold that from you, me, and whoever else, is solely responsible. When the Titanic sank, women and children were given the life boats. No sane person would point at the water and blame the people who drowned because they didn't get a life boat. This probably isn't the best analogy, because there was a limited amount of life boats.
Christians can't seem to make up their minds on whether or not "faith" is something that I decide to have(or not), or if it is something that is arbitrarily rationed out.
whoever decided to withhold that from you, me, and whoever else, is solely responsible
DeleteJesus said as much:
http://biblehub.com/mark/4-12.htm
Yes, "the disease is created so the cure can be sold". I also like your point about Paul and the wages of sin.
ReplyDeleteI once heard someone say that if the wages of sin is eternal torture in a lake of fire, then Jesus did not pay the penalty for us. It is troubling to think that his crucifixion, even if horrendous, is somehow equal to eternity in agony.
DeleteIt's all fairy tales anyway so no worries.
ReplyDeleteAdded Note: THERE IS NO HELL! As you wrote: " ... there is no proof of hell outside of ancient books."
I need to get back and finish your book, Nan, I got sidetracked with some things. I know that you deal with Hell, I'll interested :)
ReplyDeleteNot to worry. The best laid plans ... ;-)
DeleteBut I do think you'll find the chapters on hell and satan (the one who tries to send people there) rather interesting.
Cool, I'm looking forward to it.
DeleteGood post, Alice!
ReplyDelete"WHY does everyone who ever lived deserve to be in eternal pain and suffering for finite sins we commit on this earth during our short lives?" I remembered this question plaguing me before left Christianity. So relieved to be free. So very relieved not to think hell is real.
I'll go you one better. Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that the punishment for sin is -- must be -- an eternity of suffering in the lake of fire. Non-negotiable: you sin, you burn. So how exactly did Jesus manage to pay that price -- that absolute, non-negotiable price -- by suffering on the cross for a mere thirty-six hours or so? Was the price different for Him? If so, how is that justice? Or is He still, always, suffering in Hell on our behalf? If so, what's up with the empty tomb?
Delete...And I see that Alice has already mentioned this point in the replies above. That's what I get for thinking I'm clever.
...And I see that Alice has already mentioned this point in the replies above. That's what I get for thinking I'm clever.
DeleteThe idea was not original to me, (actually my husband asked it out loud many years ago, and I was very upset) but when I started accepting the salvation of all , I heard it on a podcast I listened to for awhile (The Martin Zender/Dan Sheridan Show).
I've heard Chuck Missler toss around the idea (I think it was him) that Jesus somehow suffered for "all eternity" in some other type dimension/ or before the foundations of the world. Very speculative, but at least he acknowledges the problem.
I've ALSO heard it dealt with in the argument that Jesus was perfect, so somehow his shortened suffering counted more.
So relieved to be free.
DeleteMe too, it's so nice not having to worry that everyone you meet may be going there, too. That was awful.