One of the last lingering doubts I had as to the Bible (or at least some of it) not being inspired was the idea that it prophesied events well into the future. Most importantly, I suppose were the prophecies that Jesus was said to have fulfilled.
I saw an article in the comments section of another site recently in which a rabbi explains why one such fulfillment is rejected by Judaism.
Question:One of the methods you used in your tape series to refute missionary claims is to point out the context of the prophecy. For example, you point out that the seventh chapter of Isaiah cannot be a prophecy about Jesus’ virgin birth because it suggests that the prophecy was to have been fulfilled in Ahaz’s lifetime, some 700 years before Jesus.Still, maybe this is a “double prophecy,” a prophecy about a boy to be born in the days of Ahaz and also a prophecy to the birth of Jesus. The context is only for the first application of this double prophecy. Rabbi, do you have any comment? read on....
For me, this particular prophecy always seemed a bit of a stretch anyway, so it wasn't hard to see how it does really seem to be completely out of context when referring to Jesus. There were more, trickier ones, and I'll try to delve into those in the coming weeks and months.
Meanwhile, check out this post on the doctrine of Hell from a Judaic view.
Believers pick and choose which bits of scripture are legit' "Prophecy", and which are not(or which haven't been fulfilled, yet). Not that this is entirely shocking, or anything, but there's a more obvious problem with a knowledge of the future, which is this: The future is fixed and immovable. That, of course, means that our "free will" is a complete illusion(at the very best).
ReplyDeleteAnd yeah, you got me----I'm being "black 'n white", here. That is, if there is a "God", then I'm being reasonable to conclude that he/she either knows the future, or he/she does not know it.
I assumed as well that all these thing were legit just because someone said so. There is another side to it and it is fascinating.
DeleteRe: the free will thing- As a Calvinist, I was totally OK with not having it (free will) so that part didn't really bother me.
As a Calvinist, I was totally OK with not having it (free will) so that part didn't really bother me.
DeleteIt means "God" would have limits on "free will", too.
But that's okay, Calvinism offers a wide array of things with which to be disgusted and leave, not just the "robot" part. For instance, there's the belief that "God" deliberately withholds his "mercy" from some people(and there's not a damned thing that they can do about it).
I'm sorry, but I just feel that sensible people cannot remain in such a nonsensical belief-system.
From "irresistible grace"(Calvinism)
Delete"the Holy Spirit, 'graciously causes the elect sinner to cooperate, to believe, to repent, to come freely and willingly to Christ."[bold, mine]
Uh-huh. Caused to come freely, they say.
OTG! (oh, their god!)
Uh-huh. Caused to come freely, they say.
DeleteWow, I never thought of it that way.
Hope you are having a good week.
ReplyDeleteDid you read the comment on the Finding Truth blog made by the person (who apparently is a Christian, but who certainly doesn't show much Christian *love* in his comments) about this prophecy? He inferred that the website you referenced above (outreachjudaism.org) didn't have any credibility because it is a "Jewish anti-Christian" website. Duh!
ReplyDeleteActually, if one looks deeply enough, they will discover that the word "prophecy" didn't hold the same meaning thousands of years ago as it does today. In biblical times, it was simply a message from God. Not some foretelling of an event that would occur in the far, far distant future.
I hadn't, but I just jumped over to the comments section there. Nate's site has a lot of great information.
Delete"Not some foretelling of an event that would occur in the far, far distant future."
DeleteThere is reason to believe that anything a prophet prophesied about should happen in the near future; within the lifetime of the prophet and/or those prophesied to. There were pretty brutal consequences for someone claiming to have a 'word from God' that didn't come to fruition.
Ruth
As in "all these things will come upon thisgeneration??
DeleteAs in "But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, is to be put to death.”
ReplyDeleteYou may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the Lord?” If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously, so do not be alarmed." Deut. 18: 20-22
Zoiks!!!
It is interesting that Jews in Jesus day did not accept him and don't accept him as the Messiah still.
DeleteIt just so happens that WisenedSage on exchristian.net wrote a very clear nicely researched piece on prophecy today Alice. If you or anyone here who might be interested didn't catch it it's here: http://new.exchristian.net/2014/05/do-bibles-prophecies-prove-bible-to-be.html#comment-1390868452
ReplyDeleteMy experience while attending church was for prophecy to be alluded to as substantial and overwhelmingly accepted as being fulfilled but not actually delved into specifically. Therefore I imagine that I thought when I started questioning Christianity that there probably was something there but that it probably wasn't really powerful or it would have been spelled out for us over and over again in great detail. Much of the preaching seemed to involve reaffirming our faith so I was pretty sure that no stone was left unturned in this area. WS makes a very compelling point that if any prophesy proves false then the idea that an all knowing God was responsible for the content of the Bible should also be proven false and he goes on to give examples of some very obviously untrue prophecies. If you're not drinking the kool-aid prophecy does nothing more than confirm that the Bible was written by men from 2000+ years ago who received no superhuman help. Everyone should be made aware of the patently false prophecies that our Christian leaders and their apologists never mention.
;
Sorry I linked to a comment I was reading rather than the article itself:
Deletehttp://new.exchristian.net/2014/05/do-bibles-prophecies-prove-bible-to-be.html
Everyone should be made aware of the patently false prophecies that our Christian leaders and their apologists never mention.
DeleteYes they should. I saw that post, Dan, thanks for pointing it out here. I haven't had much time to do any reading the last few days, but I do plan to read it carefully.
"It is interesting that Jews in Jesus day did not accept him and don't accept him as the Messiah still."
ReplyDeleteThis concept is actually supposed to be the appeal that makes him the real thing (but you probably already knew that). It seems a sleight-of-hand kind of a bid.
What I found interesting was that there were a number of individuals at the time of Jesus who were stepping up to the plate, claiming to be the messiah. According to this video anyways:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NIg61SKS0s
I always found the Pilate phenomenon interesting because it was his treatment along with the Sanhedrin that seemed to give Jesus his credibility in a perverse sort of way. This video seems to suggest otherwise.
DeleteThis concept is actually supposed to be the appeal that makes him the real thing (but you probably already knew that). It seems a sleight-of-hand kind of a bid.
Indeed.
I checked out the video, too.